• laptops

    From MATTHEW MUNSON@VERT/IUTOPIA to all on Sat Oct 24 10:48:00 2020
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    Im debating between a macbook air and a gaming laptop using windows. The big issue is
    making sure the laptops have good thermals.
    ---
    wcQWK 8.0 Inland Utopia * iutopia.duckdns.org:2323
  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sat Oct 24 19:16:18 2020
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    Re: laptops
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to all on Sat Oct 24 2020 10:48 am

    Im debating between a macbook air and a gaming laptop using windows. The big issue is
    making sure the laptops have good thermals.

    Macbook Air's are super light and power efficient so I imagine they would run quite cool. Don't buy one yet, they're about to announce the very first ARM powered Macbook. I bet it runs super cool and fast.

    |08~|05B|03ob|08:|06R|03ob|08~
    |07



    ... Documentation - The worst part of programming.

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  • From Android8675@VERT/SHODAN to MATTHEW MUNSON on Tue Oct 27 08:31:02 2020
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    Re: laptops
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to all on Sat Oct 24 2020 10:48 am

    Im debating between a macbook air and a gaming laptop using windows. The big issue is
    making sure the laptops have good thermals.

    Why are thermals important? Why not the fact that Apples are overpriced pieces of sh__? Which gaming laptop? Why do you need a gaming laptop for [what I assume is to] running a BBS?


    --
    Android8675@ShodansCore

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  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to Android8675 on Tue Oct 27 17:51:53 2020
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    Re: laptops
    By: Android8675 to MATTHEW MUNSON on Tue Oct 27 2020 08:31 am

    Why are thermals important? Why not the fact that Apples are overpriced pieces of sh__? Which gaming
    laptop? Why do you need a gaming laptop for [what I assume is to] running a BBS?

    Wait until the ARM powered laptops come out and blow away any Intel chip in thermals and performance. They're already blowing away qualcom chips with Apple Silicon in the iphone.

    It's a great time to get into Apple.

    |08~|05B|03ob|08:|06R|03ob|08~
    |07



    ... A critic is a legless man who teaches running.

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Bob Roberts on Tue Oct 27 17:55:32 2020
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    On 10/24/2020 7:16 PM, Bob Roberts wrote:

    Macbook Air's are super light and power efficient so I imagine they would run quite cool. Don't buy one yet, they're about to announce the very first ARM powered Macbook. I bet it runs super cool and fast.

    I'm pretty sure ARM macbooks are a dead end... I can install linux on
    the oldest intel macbook to this day, I doubt that will ever be true for
    ARM based macbooks. They're killing the homebrew scene.

    That's not to say they won't run okay... just I'll have absolutely zero interrest at that point myself.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Bob Roberts on Tue Oct 27 19:41:51 2020
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    Re: laptops
    By: Bob Roberts to Android8675 on Tue Oct 27 2020 05:51 pm

    Wait until the ARM powered laptops come out and blow away any Intel chip in thermals and performance. They're already blowing away qualcom chips with Apple Silicon in the iphone.

    It's a great time to get into Apple.

    I'm curious how ARM is with things like video encoding and transcoding, distributed computing, and other computing-intensive tasks. Maybe they've caught up with Intel & AMD by now?

    Nightfox

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    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to Android8675 on Wed Oct 28 09:28:00 2020
    @VIA: BEERS20
    @MSGID: <5F999D51.16998.dove-hlp@vert.synchro.net>
    Im debating between a macbook air and a gaming laptop using windows. Th issue is
    making sure the laptops have good thermals.

    Why are thermals important? Why not the fact that Apples are overpriced piecesof sh__? Which gaming laptop? Why do you need a gaming laptop for [what Iassume is to] running a BBS?

    The Apple things still rages on with some people. I think Apples are great for some things.

    I use Raspberry Pi's for small network, server and tasks. I use T430s Thinkpads for my laptop/linux platform, but I still use nice shiny Apple iMac 27" for my day to day driver/content consumption.

    They are powerful. They run a capable and easy to use OS. They look awesome, and serve up content in a way that just works out of the box and... if you use AppleTV/iPhone/HomePod (Apple devices) they implement eachother great.

    Apple's rock.

    For the OP, it depends on what you're trying to DO. You said thermals, so I wonder if you're trying to play a bunch of games or build software/develop code??? Depending on what type of horsepower you need I would suggest different levels of my own setup to you. The Thinkpad T420-T440 series can be had from $100-200 and some are even socketed and allow for upgrades to still capable processors. Cheap, linux, good.

    If you have money, and possibly other Apple devices, you won't go wrong getting a MacBook Pro. They work, look great and WORK.



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  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 28 09:30:00 2020
    @VIA: BEERS20
    @MSGID: <5F999D51.16999.dove-hlp@vert.synchro.net>
    Macbook Air's are super light and power efficient so I imagine they woul quite cool. Don't buy one yet, they're about to announce the very first powered Macbook. I bet it runs super cool and fast.

    I'm pretty sure ARM macbooks are a dead end... I can install linux on
    the oldest intel macbook to this day, I doubt that will ever be true for ARM based macbooks. They're killing the homebrew scene.

    That's not to say they won't run okay... just I'll have absolutely zero interrest at that point myself.


    Manjaro ARM is getting pretty great. I'm running it on a RockChip ARM processor, which is pretty barebones and development is coming along really nicely. Still a few tech glitches, but they are rounding out their ARM offering pretty nicely. Am I missing something?? - we can load ARM linux software on these new Macs right?



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  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 28 08:21:30 2020
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    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to Bob Roberts on Tue Oct 27 2020 05:55 pm

    I'm pretty sure ARM macbooks are a dead end... I can install linux on
    the oldest intel macbook to this day, I doubt that will ever be true for ARM based macbooks. They're killing the homebrew scene.

    I'm not sure why you would want to install linux directly on Mac hardware. The reason to invest in a Mac is to use Mac OS and the tight integration between the OS and the hardware. It's easy to virtualize linux on top of Mac OS using many different tools like Docker, Parallels, VMWare, Virtual Box, etc. Big Sur also debuts Mac OS's built in hypervisor, which should make it even more efficient.

    |08~|05B|03ob|08:|06R|03ob|08~
    |07



    ... On a clear disk you can seek forever.

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  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to Nightfox on Wed Oct 28 08:26:33 2020
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    Re: laptops
    By: Nightfox to Bob Roberts on Tue Oct 27 2020 07:41 pm

    I'm curious how ARM is with things like video encoding and transcoding, distributed computing, and other computing-intensive tasks. Maybe they've caught up with Intel & AMD by now?

    Well, keep in mind this isn't just an off-the-shelf ARM processor. It's custom Apple Silicon based on the ARM instruction set. It has built in coprocessors for ML, graphics, power management, storage, etc. But you're right, the big test will be when they transition their Mac Pro line of hardware to ARM, as the focus of that line is to professional content creators.

    |08~|05B|03ob|08:|06R|03ob|08~
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    ... Everybody is somebody else's weirdo.

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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 28 10:48:59 2020
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    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to Bob Roberts on Tue Oct 27 2020 05:55 pm

    Macbook Air's are super light and power efficient so I imagine they
    would run quite cool. Don't buy one yet, they're about to announce
    the very first ARM powered Macbook. I bet it runs super cool and
    fast.

    I'm pretty sure ARM macbooks are a dead end... I can install linux on
    the oldest intel macbook to this day, I doubt that will ever be true for ARM based macbooks. They're killing the homebrew scene.

    That's not to say they won't run okay... just I'll have absolutely zero interrest at that point myself.

    most Linux distros run fine on ARM. And if you absolutely have to run something not compiled on ARM, you can always do it in a VM.

    DaiTengu

    ... Old age is life's parody.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to Nightfox on Wed Oct 28 09:36:00 2020
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    I'm curious how ARM is with things like video encoding and transcoding, distributed computing, and other computing-intensive tasks. Maybe they'vecaught up with Intel & AMD by now?

    If you like to Tinker, grab this PineBook Pro for $199.

    I've found that ARM (the Pi, Pine stuff, other SBCs) is capable but underpowered - however the price point is solid and for built tasks they do a LOT for me.

    You can get the things done, but yer not breaking any speed records or running on bleeding edge hardware.. yer not running the newest games or apps, but there are usually ways to get most things done.

    Manjaro ARM is really helping give the ARM community a solid Arch-based linux distro. I think they are worth a look, and depending on your needs can be implemented to do things in your home network. Heck, for some small businesses or tasks, I can see them running the menu or network tasks.

    ??? I think our tech is so advanced that looking at low-cost low-performance solutions is intelligent.



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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to paulie420 on Wed Oct 28 12:23:51 2020
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    Re: Re: laptops
    By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Wed Oct 28 2020 09:36 am

    I'm curious how ARM is with things like video encoding and
    transcoding, distributed computing, and other computing-intensive
    tasks. Maybe they'vecaught up with Intel & AMD by now?

    If you like to Tinker, grab this PineBook Pro for $199.

    Which PineBook Pro? Which one is "this"?

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Digital Man@VERT to Bob Roberts on Wed Oct 28 13:33:13 2020
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    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Bob Roberts to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 28 2020 08:21 am

    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to Bob Roberts on Tue Oct 27 2020 05:55 pm

    I'm pretty sure ARM macbooks are a dead end... I can install linux on the oldest intel macbook to this day, I doubt that will ever be true for ARM based macbooks. They're killing the homebrew scene.

    I'm not sure why you would want to install linux directly on Mac hardware.

    https://www.cultofmac.com/162823/linux-creator-linus-torvalds-i-love-my-macbook-air/
    --
    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #47:
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    Synchronet Vertrauen Home of Synchronet [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Bob Roberts on Wed Oct 28 20:57:19 2020
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    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Bob Roberts to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 28 2020 08:21 am

    I'm not sure why you would want to install linux directly on Mac hardware.

    Maybe the same reason you'd want to install Linux directly on any computer.

    The reason to invest in a Mac is to use Mac OS and the tight integration between the OS and the hardware.

    How is Mac OS integrated with the hardware more tightly than other operating systems? And I'm not sure what that even means?

    It's easy to virtualize linux on top of
    Mac OS using many different tools like Docker, Parallels, VMWare, Virtual Box, etc. Big Sur also debuts Mac OS's built in hypervisor, which should make it even more efficient.

    An OS is always most efficient when running directly on the hardware.

    Nightfox

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    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to paulie420 on Thu Oct 29 01:37:00 2020
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    Re: Re: laptops
    By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Wed Oct 28 2020 09:36 am

    I'm curious how ARM is with things like video encoding and transcoding, distributed computing, and other computing-intensive tasks. Maybe they'vecaught up with Intel & AMD by now?

    If you like to Tinker, grab this PineBook Pro for $199.

    I've found that ARM (the Pi, Pine stuff, other SBCs) is capable but underpow

    You can get the things done, but yer not breaking any speed records or runni

    Manjaro ARM is really helping give the ARM community a solid Arch-based linu m running the menu or network tasks.

    ??? I think our tech is so advanced that looking at low-cost low-performance



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    I've been looking ata the Pinebooks, as wells as the Pinephone. I set up a Rock64 sbc to run a display for anon-profit I help out with, and it's been running solid. So far I've had better performance running Armbian over
    Ubuntu MATE, however I'm curious to see how the Manjaro based phone OS will work.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Nightfox on Thu Oct 29 01:41:00 2020
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    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Nightfox to paulie420 on Wed Oct 28 2020 12:23 pm

    Re: Re: laptops
    By: paulie420 to Nightfox on Wed Oct 28 2020 09:36 am

    I'm curious how ARM is with things like video encoding and
    transcoding, distributed computing, and other computing-intensive
    tasks. Maybe they'vecaught up with Intel & AMD by now?

    If you like to Tinker, grab this PineBook Pro for $199.

    Which PineBook Pro? Which one is "this"?

    Nightfox


    Pine makes two models - the Pinebook and Pinebook Pro. The difference is the Pro is a generation newer, and better spec'd than the non-Pro that sold for $100 less.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to Digital Man on Thu Oct 29 01:46:00 2020
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    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Digital Man to Bob Roberts on Wed Oct 28 2020 01:33 pm

    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Bob Roberts to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 28 2020 08:21 am

    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to Bob Roberts on Tue Oct 27 2020 05:55 pm

    I'm pretty sure ARM macbooks are a dead end... I can install linux o the oldest intel macbook to this day, I doubt that will ever be true for ARM based macbooks. They're killing the homebrew scene.

    I'm not sure why you would want to install linux directly on Mac hardware

    https://www.cultofmac.com/162823/linux-creator-linus-torvalds-i-love-my-macb --
    digital man

    Synchronet "Real Fact" #47:
    The Synchronet Museum is online at http://wiki.synchro.net/history:museum:in Norco, CA WX: 76.6F, 19.0% humidity, 3 mph NW wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs


    Some distros such as Ubuntu MATE are intended for older systems with lower resources. Switching over from OSX to an OS running less overhead should result in better performance.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Tracker1 on Wed Oct 28 07:49:00 2020
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    Tracker1 wrote to Bob Roberts <=-

    I'm pretty sure ARM macbooks are a dead end... I can install linux on
    the oldest intel macbook to this day, I doubt that will ever be true
    for ARM based macbooks. They're killing the homebrew scene.

    There's ARM-based distros, wonder if Apple would let you boot them.


    ... Consider different fading systems
    --- MultiMail/XT v0.52
    Synchronet realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Moondog on Thu Oct 29 06:34:00 2020
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    Moondog wrote to Digital Man <=-

    Some distros such as Ubuntu MATE are intended for older systems with
    lower resources. Switching over from OSX to an OS running less
    overhead should result in better performance.

    Lubuntu is another fine choice for low-end systems. Uses LXDE and a
    selection of smaller-footprint apps than vanilla Ubuntu. I ran it
    well on single-core Thinkpads with a gig of RAM for years.

    ... Abandon desire
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  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to Moondog on Fri Oct 30 17:15:00 2020
    @VIA: BEERS20
    @MSGID: <5F9CB41A.17013.dove-hlp@vert.synchro.net>
    I've been looking ata the Pinebooks, as wells as the Pinephone. I set
    up aRock64 sbc to run a display for anon-profit I help out with, and
    it's beenrunning solid. So far I've had better performance running Armbian overUbuntu MATE, however I'm curious to see how the Manjaro
    based phone OS willwork.

    ---

    I really like Armbian, too... especially if I'm designing something that
    may need a light GUI for some other end user to be able to maintain...
    but man, I think you'll really like Manjaro ARM. It is getting really
    polished, and continues to get better and better on the PineBook Pro.
    Manjaro team is supporting the hardware and really dialing everything in
    well.



    |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
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  • From DaiTengu@VERT/ENSEMBLE to Digital Man on Sat Oct 31 10:51:37 2020
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    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Digital Man to Bob Roberts on Wed Oct 28 2020 01:33 pm

    I'm pretty sure ARM macbooks are a dead end... I can install linux
    on the oldest intel macbook to this day, I doubt that will ever be
    true for ARM based macbooks. They're killing the homebrew scene.

    I'm not sure why you would want to install linux directly on Mac
    hardware.

    https://www.cultofmac.com/162823/linux-creator-linus-torvalds-i-love-my-ma cbook-air/ --

    Everyone knows Linus is insane. Brilliant, but insane.

    DaiTengu

    ... Interchangeable parts won't.

    ---
    Synchronet War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com
  • From MATTHEW MUNSON@VERT/IUTOPIA to ANDROID8675 on Sat Oct 31 08:03:00 2020
    @VIA: IUTOPIA
    @MSGID: <5F9E2588.17015.dove-hlp@vert.synchro.net>
    On 10/27/2020 8:31 AM, ANDROID8675 wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON:

    Re: laptops
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to all on Sat Oct 24 2020 10:48 am

    Im debating between a macbook air and a gaming laptop using windows. The big
    issue is
    making sure the laptops have good thermals.

    Why are thermals important? Why not the fact that Apples are overpriced pieces of
    sh__? Which gaming laptop? Why do you need a gaming laptop for [what I assume is to]
    running a BBS?
    Its not for running a bbs, I have my ryzen box to run the bbs. I was thinking the Dell G5
    2020 with the i7 and 2060 graphics.

    Something good for video editing, bbs user tools like multimail and syncterm and final
    fantasy 14.
    ---
    wcQWK 8.0 Inland Utopia * iutopia.duckdns.org:2323
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to MATTHEW MUNSON on Sat Oct 31 23:13:03 2020
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    Re: RE: laptops
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to ANDROID8675 on Sat Oct 31 2020 08:03 am

    On 10/27/2020 8:31 AM, ANDROID8675 wrote to MATTHEW MUNSON:

    Re: laptops
    By: MATTHEW MUNSON to all on Sat Oct 24 2020 10:48 am

    Im debating between a macbook air and a gaming laptop using
    windows. The big
    issue is
    making sure the laptops have good thermals.

    Why are thermals important? Why not the fact that Apples are
    overpriced pieces of
    sh__? Which gaming laptop? Why do you need a gaming laptop for [what I assume is to]
    running a BBS?
    Its not for running a bbs, I have my ryzen box to run the bbs. I was thinking the Dell G5
    2020 with the i7 and 2060 graphics.

    Something good for video editing, bbs user tools like multimail and syncterm and final
    fantasy 14.

    there is something wrong with your editor.

    anyways, you know what type of computer to get. i wouldnt get a laptop. why would you get a laptop if you're not going to take it anywhere. you can get a tiny desktop computer with muscle.
    ---
    Synchronet ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to paulie420 on Mon Nov 2 00:24:00 2020
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    Re: Re: laptops
    By: paulie420 to Moondog on Fri Oct 30 2020 05:15 pm

    I've been looking ata the Pinebooks, as wells as the Pinephone. I set up aRock64 sbc to run a display for anon-profit I help out with, and it's beenrunning solid. So far I've had better performance running Armbian overUbuntu MATE, however I'm curious to see how the Manjaro based phone OS willwork.

    ---

    I really like Armbian, too... especially if I'm designing something that
    may need a light GUI for some other end user to be able to maintain...
    but man, I think you'll really like Manjaro ARM. It is getting really polished, and continues to get better and better on the PineBook Pro. Manjaro team is supporting the hardware and really dialing everything in well.



    |07p|15AULIE|1142|07o
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    I had Manjaro running for awhile on a ten year old netbook I use for testing distros. I liked it. It ran fine on oldrer hardware.

    ---
    Synchronet The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to DaiTengu on Fri Oct 30 16:46:41 2020
    @VIA: TRN
    @MSGID: <5F9CA5E1.1027.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5F9992EB.2492.dove-hwswhelp@warensemble.com>
    @TZ: fe5c
    On 10/28/2020 8:48 AM, DaiTengu wrote:
    I'm pretty sure ARM macbooks are a dead end... I can install linux on
    the oldest intel macbook to this day, I doubt that will ever be true for
    ARM based macbooks. They're killing the homebrew scene.

    most Linux distros run fine on ARM. And if you absolutely have to
    run something not compiled on ARM, you can always do it in a VM.
    Try getting Linux running on an old iPad and tell me how that goes.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Fri Oct 30 16:49:04 2020
    @VIA: TRN
    @MSGID: <5F9CA670.1028.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5F99C547.6330.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @TZ: fe5c
    On 10/28/2020 12:23 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    If you like to Tinker, grab this PineBook Pro for $199.

    Which PineBook Pro? Which one is "this"?

    I'm assuming https://www.pine64.org/pinebook-pro/

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Tue Nov 3 15:50:10 2020
    @VIA: TRN
    @MSGID: <5FA1DEA2.1040.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5F9A3D9F.6332.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @TZ: fe5c
    On 10/28/2020 8:57 PM, Nightfox wrote:

    How is Mac OS integrated with the hardware more tightly than other operating systems? And I'm not sure what that even means?

    They've effectively created their own TPM chips that displace a lot of
    Intel functionality, that they can register their hardware devices with.

    For example, you can swap the cameras on two iPhone 12 devices and you
    will see random glitchiness... swap them back, work fine. This is
    because they intentionally put buggy behavior not just with "valid" components, but those registered directly on the device.

    It's easy to virtualize linux on top of
    Mac OS using many different tools like Docker, Parallels, VMWare, Virtual
    Box, etc. Big Sur also debuts Mac OS's built in hypervisor, which should
    make it even more efficient.

    An OS is always most efficient when running directly on the hardware.

    True, but modern virtualization hooks in the processors helps a bit if
    you're emulating for the same architecture... that said, Mac switching
    to ARM won't really help x86 software in emulation much.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 3 15:52:10 2020
    @VIA: TRN
    @MSGID: <5FA1DF1A.1041.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5F9AC009.4372.dove.hardware@realitycheckbbs.org>
    @TZ: fe5c
    On 10/28/2020 7:49 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
    I'm pretty sure ARM macbooks are a dead end... I can install linux on
    the oldest intel macbook to this day, I doubt that will ever be true
    for ARM based macbooks. They're killing the homebrew scene.

    There's ARM-based distros, wonder if Apple would let you boot them.

    From what they've done with iOS devices, seriously doubtful. Today's
    Apple products are tomorrow's e-waste.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 3 15:53:53 2020
    @VIA: TRN
    @MSGID: <5FA1DF81.1042.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5F9AC96D.4373.dove.hardware@realitycheckbbs.org>
    @TZ: fe5c
    On 10/29/2020 6:34 AM, poindexter FORTRAN wrote:
    Some distros such as Ubuntu MATE are intended for older systems with
    lower resources. Switching over from OSX to an OS running less
    overhead should result in better performance.

    Lubuntu is another fine choice for low-end systems. Uses LXDE and a
    selection of smaller-footprint apps than vanilla Ubuntu. I ran it
    well on single-core Thinkpads with a gig of RAM for years.

    Exactly, not to mention the security concerns of running something new
    vs. a 7yo unmaintained OS.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Wed Nov 4 08:23:00 2020
    @VIA: DIGDIST
    @MSGID: <5FA2D564.6348.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5FA1DEA2.1040.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @TZ: 41e0
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Tue Nov 03 2020 03:50 pm

    An OS is always most efficient when running directly on the hardware.

    True, but modern virtualization hooks in the processors helps a bit if you're emulating for the same architecture... that said, Mac switching
    to ARM won't really help x86 software in emulation much.

    That's one thing that confuses me a bit about Apple's decision to switch to ARM for their Macs. Since they switched to Intel, one of their big selling points is now they can run both Mac OS and Windows software natively. Boot Camp allows dual-booting between Mac OS and Windows, but you can also run Windows in a virtual machine relatively fast within Mac OS. I imagine you could also install an x86-based Linux distro on it if you wanted to.

    At the same time, I've heard Microsoft has a version of Windows 10 that runs on ARM and runs desktop software. I've heard it also has a 32-bit Intel x86 emulator so you can run Intel x86 desktop software on ARM with it.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Tracker1 on Wed Nov 4 12:11:58 2020
    @VIA: HAVENS
    @MSGID: <5FA2E0DE.958.dove-hwswhelp@havens.synchronetbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <5FA1DF81.1042.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @TZ: 412c
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 03 2020 03:53 pm

    Lubuntu is another fine choice for low-end systems. Uses LXDE and a selection of smaller-footprint apps than vanilla Ubuntu. I ran it
    well on single-core Thinkpads with a gig of RAM for years.

    Lubuntu has been my OS of choice for about 6 years now. Recently I felt like a change so now I'm duel booting into Lubuntu and Puppy Linux. So far I'm enjoying Puppy. It's chock full of every utility you can think of and more. It's blazing fast. I'll give my full report in about 6 months. :-).

    ... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator! I'll go back on topic, I swear!

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Wed Nov 4 16:12:22 2020
    @VIA: TRN
    @MSGID: <5FA33556.1045.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5FA2D564.6348.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @TZ: fe5c
    On 11/4/2020 9:23 AM, Nightfox wrote:
    True, but modern virtualization hooks in the processors helps a bit if
    you're emulating for the same architecture... that said, Mac switching
    to ARM won't really help x86 software in emulation much.

    That's one thing that confuses me a bit about Apple's decision to
    switch to ARM for their Macs. Since they switched to Intel, one of
    their big selling points is now they can run both Mac OS and Windows
    software natively. Boot Camp allows dual-booting between Mac OS and
    Windows, but you can also run Windows in a virtual machine relatively
    fast within Mac OS. I imagine you could also install an x86-based Linux distro on it if you wanted to.

    At the same time, I've heard Microsoft has a version of Windows 10
    that runs on ARM and runs desktop software. I've heard it also has a
    32-bit Intel x86 emulator so you can run Intel x86 desktop software on
    ARM with it.
    I think the biggest difference is Apple experience in-house with
    designing their own chips has improved dramatically with iOS devices and
    they have the confidence to have their own designs now. Not to mention
    moves to increasingly lock down hardware.

    As to emulating windows, or running windows apps, I'm not sure if they
    will work with MS towards better support, or drop the idea altogether
    since core MS apps have Apple and Online versions, and there's likely
    less use of Windows emulation these days compared to even a few years ago.

    For developers on Mac devices, Docker/Linux emulation is probably much
    more common and aarch64 support on Linux is pretty close to x86-64
    levels of general support at this point. Even MS is headed this
    direction in extended support for WSL2/Docker integration being top
    notch, and would expect similar from Apple in the future.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Wed Nov 4 21:38:08 2020
    @VIA: DIGDIST
    @MSGID: <5FA38FC0.6350.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5FA33556.1045.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @TZ: 41e0
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Wed Nov 04 2020 04:12 pm

    That's one thing that confuses me a bit about Apple's decision to
    switch to ARM for their Macs. Since they switched to Intel, one of

    What editor are you using? When you quoted my paragraphs, it was only putting a quote character (>) on the first line, and the rest of the lines in my paragraphs didn't have a quote character in front.

    As to emulating windows, or running windows apps, I'm not sure if they will work with MS towards better support, or drop the idea altogether since core MS apps have Apple and Online versions, and there's likely less use of Windows emulation these days compared to even a few years ago.

    It's not "Windows emulation" (I haven't heard that term anyway). Currently, Windows can run on Macs because they use Intel processors - there's no emulation involved. And for the ARM macs, they'd have to emulate an Intel processor to enable Windows to run - not necessarily emulating Windows (I'm not enturely sure what "Windows emulation" would mean, exactly).

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to HusTler on Thu Nov 5 10:09:18 2020
    @VIA: PALANT
    @MSGID: <5FA423AE.1258.dove-hwswhelp@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <5FA2E0DE.958.dove-hwswhelp@havens.synchronetbbs.org>
    @TZ: 4168
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: HusTler to Tracker1 on Wed Nov 04 2020 12:11 pm

    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 03 2020 03:53 pm

    Lubuntu is another fine choice for low-end systems. Uses LXDE and a selection of smaller-footprint apps than vanilla Ubuntu. I ran it
    well on single-core Thinkpads with a gig of RAM for years.

    Lubuntu has been my OS of choice for about 6 years now. Recently I felt li a change so now I'm duel booting into Lubuntu and Puppy Linux. So far I'm enjoying Puppy. It's chock full of every utility you can think of and more. It's blazing fast. I'll give my full report in about 6 months. :-).

    ... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator! I'll go back on topic, I swear!


    I tried Puppy Linux some time ago, when I was a Linux n00b, and I found it interesting. It was a bit buggy, though.

    If yoiu enjoy ultra-compact Linux distributions, Tiny Core Linux is worth checking. Keep in mind the core has the barebones necessary to boot and offer you a shell, and not much else. You are supposed to build up from there.

    I actually wrote an article for Linux Magazine about packaging and deploying Tiny Core Linux extensions. It should be hitting the presses not long from now. I have been testing it with some very old computers we have at work because TCL might be the difference between throwing them away or not.

    --
    gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

    ---
    Synchronet Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Thu Nov 5 10:27:27 2020
    @VIA: TRN
    @MSGID: <5FA435FF.1047.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5FA38FC0.6350.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @TZ: fe5c
    On 11/4/2020 10:38 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    That's one thing that confuses me a bit about Apple's decision to

    switch to ARM for their Macs. Since they switched to Intel, one of

    What editor are you using? When you quoted my paragraphs, it was only putting a quote character (>) on the first line, and the rest of the lines in my paragraphs didn't have a quote character in front.

    Yeah, it does that (Thunderbird over NNTP). It's because your original message doesn't include actual line breaks, so it's a long, single line
    in the quote.

    As to emulating windows, or running windows apps, I'm not sure if they
    will work with MS towards better support, or drop the idea altogether
    since core MS apps have Apple and Online versions, and there's likely
    less use of Windows emulation these days compared to even a few years ago.

    It's not "Windows emulation" (I haven't heard that term anyway). Currently, Windows can run on Macs because they use Intel processors - there's no emulation involved. And for the ARM macs, they'd have to emulate an Intel processor to enable Windows to run - not necessarily emulating Windows (I'm not enturely sure what "Windows emulation" would mean, exactly).

    I was referring to the ARM case, where using Windows apps would likely
    be via emulation, and on ARM for x86 windows would be a poor experience
    most likely. Of course there is Windows ARM, but without x86 there are
    so few apps that are Windows ARM and Windows Only that it's not worth
    the effort most likely.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Thu Nov 5 19:13:44 2020
    @VIA: DIGDIST
    @MSGID: <5FA4BF68.6353.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5FA435FF.1047.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @TZ: 41e0
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Thu Nov 05 2020 10:27 am

    What editor are you using? When you quoted my paragraphs, it was only
    putting a quote character (>) on the first line, and the rest of the
    lines in my paragraphs didn't have a quote character in front.

    Yeah, it does that (Thunderbird over NNTP). It's because your original message doesn't include actual line breaks, so it's a long, single line in the quote.

    Both SlyEdit and FSEditor for Synchronet do that now. The assumption is that the reader should handle line wrapping. Is there a way to configure the line length for quoting messages in Thunderbird?


    I was referring to the ARM case, where using Windows apps would likely
    be via emulation, and on ARM for x86 windows would be a poor experience most likely. Of course there is Windows ARM, but without x86 there are
    so few apps that are Windows ARM and Windows Only that it's not worth
    the effort most likely.

    I think it's geting more interesting now that Microsoft is developing a version of Windows 10 for ARM now too. I've heard that version of Windows 10 also has a 32-bit x86 emulator so that you can run 32-bit Intel desktop software in the ARM version of Windows 10. So it sounds like Intel processor emulation can be done on ARM, at least for a 32-bit Intel processor. What's also interesting is you might be able to run the ARM version of Windows 10 on an ARM mac with Boot Camp, or in a virtual machine, the same way you can run Windows for Intel on an Intel Mac.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Arelor on Fri Nov 6 00:22:36 2020
    @VIA: HAVENS
    @MSGID: <5FA4DD9C.965.dove-hwswhelp@havens.synchronetbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <5FA423AE.1258.dove-hwswhelp@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @TZ: 412c
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Arelor to HusTler on Thu Nov 05 2020 10:09 am

    I tried Puppy Linux some time ago, when I was a Linux n00b, and I found it interesting. It was a bit buggy, though.

    If yoiu enjoy ultra-compact Linux distributions, Tiny Core Linux is worth checking. Keep in mind the core has the barebones necessary to boot and offe you a shell, and not much else. You are supposed to build up from there.

    I actually wrote an article for Linux Magazine about packaging and deploying Tiny Core Linux extensions. It should be hitting the presses not long from n I have been testing it with some very old computers we have at work because might be the difference between throwing them away or not.

    Let me know when it gets printed. The Puppy linux is novel to me. It's interesting. Very close to Ubuntu. As they say Puppy linux is "Grandpa Certified" lol

    ---
    Synchronet Havens BBS havens.synchro.net
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Fri Nov 6 12:29:53 2020
    @VIA: TRN
    @MSGID: <5FA5A431.1052.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5FA4BF68.6353.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @TZ: fe5c
    On 11/5/2020 8:13 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    Yeah, it does that (Thunderbird over NNTP). It's because your original
    message doesn't include actual line breaks, so it's a long, single line
    in the quote.

    Both SlyEdit and FSEditor for Synchronet do that now. The assumption is
    that the reader should handle line wrapping. Is there a way to
    configure the line length for quoting messages in Thunderbird?

    It wraps to the natural view in reading. It does wrap what is
    typed/added as you type, but not quoted parts, it leaves those pretty
    much as-is. And Thunderbird feels like they've been removing pieces
    lately and don't know that it'll change.

    I was referring to the ARM case, where using Windows apps would likely
    be via emulation, and on ARM for x86 windows would be a poor experience
    most likely. Of course there is Windows ARM, but without x86 there are
    so few apps that are Windows ARM and Windows Only that it's not worth
    the effort most likely.

    I think it's geting more interesting now that Microsoft is developing a version of Windows 10 for ARM now too. I've heard that version of
    Windows 10 also has a 32-bit x86 emulator so that you can run 32-bit
    Intel desktop software in the ARM version of Windows 10.

    Yeah, I don't suspect that Mac will allow booting another OS, also don't
    know about virtualizing x86 windows on arm windows, emulated on arm mac.

    So it sounds
    like Intel processor emulation can be done on ARM, at least for a 32-bit Intel processor. What's also interesting is you might be able to run the
    ARM version of Windows 10 on an ARM mac with Boot Camp, or in a virtual machine, the same way you can run Windows for Intel on an Intel Mac.

    I wouldn't expect a bootcamp option for ARM macs at all if you consider
    iOS device lockdown. Emulation might work, and may be crazy slow. I'm
    just not sure what practical applications most users need that would necessitate an x86 windows emulation on an ARM mac.

    Note: I'm not against it, I just don't see it happening.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Fri Nov 6 15:43:05 2020
    @VIA: DIGDIST
    @MSGID: <5FA5DF89.6355.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5FA5A431.1052.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @TZ: 41e0
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Fri Nov 06 2020 12:29 pm

    Yeah, I don't suspect that Mac will allow booting another OS, also don't know about virtualizing x86 windows on arm windows, emulated on arm mac.

    I wouldn't expect a bootcamp option for ARM macs at all if you consider iOS device lockdown. Emulation might work, and may be crazy slow. I'm just not sure what practical applications most users need that would necessitate an x86 windows emulation on an ARM mac.

    Note: I'm not against it, I just don't see it happening.

    The ability to boot Windows on an Intel Mac has been one of their selling points since they switched to Intel processors. Since both Apple and Microsoft are now making versions of their OS for ARM-based processors, I imagined Apple would still want to allow booting Windows to appeal to those who'd want to do that. But I guess they could go either way.

    Nightfox

    ---
    Synchronet Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Sat Nov 7 09:31:57 2020
    @VIA: TRN
    @MSGID: <5FA6CBFD.1054.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5FA5DF89.6355.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @TZ: fe5c
    On 11/6/2020 4:43 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    Note: I'm not against it, I just don't see it happening.

    The ability to boot Windows on an Intel Mac has been one of their
    selling points since they switched to Intel processors. Since both
    Apple and Microsoft are now making versions of their OS for ARM-
    based processors, I imagined Apple would still want to allow booting
    Windows to appeal to those who'd want to do that. But I guess they
    could go either way.

    Just based on their actions with iOS, and that Macs are largely only
    sold for media production and to support (mostly Apple) software
    development, I just don't see them caring about keeping that ability. I
    do think they may take some effort to make Docker work better for
    developers, not sure if they'd get to WSL2 type levels though.

    They're really about locking down the boot loader and system access,
    allowing for booting other OSes may undermine that... Not to mention,
    it's not generic arm and has some custom chipsets involved from Apple it
    may not even work well then.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

    ---
    Synchronet Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to Nightfox on Sat Nov 7 14:42:52 2020
    @VIA: HOVAL
    @MSGID: <5FA722EC.109.dove-hwswhelp@hovalbbs.com>
    @REPLY: <5FA5DF89.6355.dove_dove-hlp@digitaldistortionbbs.com>
    @TZ: 41e0
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Nightfox to Tracker1 on Fri Nov 06 2020 03:43 pm

    points since they switched to Intel processors. Since both Apple and Microsoft are now making versions of their OS for ARM-based processors, I imagined Apple would still want to allow booting Windows to appeal to those who'd want to do that. But I guess they could go either way.

    We should know soon enough. Rumor is the Apple Event on 11/10 will be the release of the Apple Silicon based iMac, 13 inch and 16 inch Macbooks. I'm sure our favorite YouTube tech reviewers will get them soon.

    |01bobbobbobbob|09bob|03bob|11bob|03bob|09bob|01bobbobbob |01robrobrobrob|09rob|03rob|11rob|03rob|09rob|01robrobrob
    |07




    ... Common sense is instinct. Enough of it is genius.

    ---
    Synchronet Halls of Valhalla <> San Francisco <> hovalbbs.com
  • From Sprite@VERT/TINTETBB to HusTler on Mon Nov 16 20:37:24 2020
    @VIA: TINTETBB
    @MSGID: <5FB33764.525.dove-hwswhelp@d-resources.hopto.org>
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    @TZ: 4168
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: HusTler to Tracker1 on Wed Nov 04 2020 12:11:58

    Lubuntu has been my OS of choice for about 6 years now. Recently I felt li a change so now I'm duel booting into Lubuntu and Puppy Linux. So far I'm enjoying Puppy. It's chock full of every utility you can think of and more. It's blazing fast. I'll give my full report in about 6 months. :-).

    I might have to give that a shot for one of my ancient laptops around here. I've found OpenBSD to work decently on one of them, but I'd really like something with a little more native software available.

    ---
    Synchronet My Brand-New BBS
  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to poindexter FORTRAN, Moond on Sun Nov 29 09:52:44 2020
    @VIA: INREALM
    @MSGID: <5FC3B5BC.138.dove-hwswhelp@innerrealmbbs.us>
    @REPLY: <5F9AC96D.4373.dove.hardware@realitycheckbbs.org>
    @TZ: 412c
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Thu Oct 29 2020 06:34 am

    Lubuntu is another fine choice for low-end systems. Uses LXDE and a
    selection of smaller-footprint apps than vanilla Ubuntu. I ran it
    well on single-core Thinkpads with a gig of RAM for years.

    I have an old thinkpad with a duo core and 4gb of Ram that came with Windows 8 Stock. It still has the old Windows 7 build I replaced the base system with, but I'm playing with Linux Distros now. Mint on xkde gets me good performance, but I'm finding it limited in terms of trying to get things set up the way I want. Namely, I'm having a hard time replacing with window managers and default terminal. I hope replacing my shell commands won't be hard either. I'm only a day in since having dropped Linux in Highschool.

    Crystal Palace, Orbitsville
    ---
    Posted via InnerRealmBBS innerrealmbbs.us
    Synchronet Inner Realm BBS - Charlotte, NC - innerrealmbbs.us
  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Tracker1 on Sun Nov 29 09:57:33 2020
    @VIA: INREALM
    @MSGID: <5FC3B6DD.139.dove-hwswhelp@innerrealmbbs.us>
    @REPLY: <5FA1DF1A.1041.dove-hwswhelp@roughneckbbs.com>
    @TZ: 412c
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 03 2020 03:52 pm

    From what they've done with iOS devices, seriously doubtful. Today's
    Apple products are tomorrow's e-waste.

    That's just more loot for me, the dumpster diver who's desk is made of two metal trashcans keeping up a surface that's made of two flat cardboard boxes ducktaped together, and filled with trash to add structral integrity.

    Shit, with all that spare mineral resources I can take to the recycler plant, I'll have enough money to get a bus ticket to the city so I can steal a bike and take it apart and put it back together in my garage for hours.

    Crystal Palace, Orbitsville
    ---
    Posted via InnerRealmBBS innerrealmbbs.us
    Synchronet Inner Realm BBS - Charlotte, NC - innerrealmbbs.us