• Facebook, eBay..

    From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to JIMMY ANDERSON on Sat Mar 27 21:31:00 2021
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    Hello JIMMY ANDERSON!

    ** On Saturday 27.03.21 - 08:07, JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to ROALT:

    I got banned from eBay, though tthey couldn't give me a reason why and wouldn't let me appeal it. ???

    Was it in the midst of selling something, or buying something?

    Our church still uses Facebook Live (for now) and I'm the one that set
    up and usually runs the stream, so I get on for that.

    I see some churches convinced that's a good solution. It's
    probably the easiest. But I hate watching those streams cause
    it requires the luxury of unmetered data. No thanks. I'd rather
    watch a recording later. YT will store a recording an I can
    fetch a smaller lower quality version with youtube-dl.

    Oh - and our church has a big 'ongoing chat' via Facebook Messenger,
    but that's a different app altogether - LOL

    Messenger is separate? I thought it was part of FB. Every once
    in a while I'll get a request from a Friend to use Messenger,
    but that takes me to a place to install an app. But FB aleady
    has a built in chat/messenger. It seems to be the same thing -
    and good enough.


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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to OGG on Thu Apr 1 08:39:00 2021
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    OGG wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

    I got banned from eBay, though tthey couldn't give me a reason why and wouldn't let me appeal it. ???

    Was it in the midst of selling something, or buying something?

    Neither. I hadn't sold anything in years and I had bought something
    about a week earlier wih buy it now. No complaints or anything.

    Our church still uses Facebook Live (for now) and I'm the one that set
    up and usually runs the stream, so I get on for that.

    I see some churches convinced that's a good solution. It's
    probably the easiest. But I hate watching those streams cause
    it requires the luxury of unmetered data. No thanks. I'd rather
    watch a recording later. YT will store a recording an I can
    fetch a smaller lower quality version with youtube-dl.

    Understood. Our issue is that we have people that are not tech
    savvy at all, so FB Live is the easiest way to reach them.

    Oh - and our church has a big 'ongoing chat' via Facebook Messenger,
    but that's a different app altogether - LOL

    Messenger is separate? I thought it was part of FB. Every once
    in a while I'll get a request from a Friend to use Messenger,
    but that takes me to a place to install an app. But FB aleady
    has a built in chat/messenger. It seems to be the same thing -
    and good enough.

    Yeah, it's the same, BUT - there is a seperate app you can install (I've
    done that on my iPhone and on the MacBook) so I don't have to 'go to
    Facebook' to read/reply. :-)




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  • From Divarin@VERT/MUTINY to JIMMY ANDERSON on Fri Apr 2 14:54:03 2021
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    Re: Re: Facebook
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to ROALT on Sat Mar 27 2021 08:07:00

    I got banned from eBay, though tthey couldn't give me a reason why and wouldn't let me appeal it. ???

    I did as well. I had just listed a game that I made and had been trying to sell on my own web site (a C64 game named Trolley Follies) and they just perma-banned me.
    I was only able to talk to some oursourced customer support rep. I expected them to say I was doing piracy or something which I was ready to prove that I held the rights to the software. But he just said that they wouldn`t even tell me why I was banned.
    To add insult to injury they still stuck me with the listing fee even though they pulled my listing after it had been up only a couple of hours. I refused to pay and it eventually went to collection. I`m still not paying it.

    In my opinion ebay needs to die. There are so many other worthwhile sites for buying and selling that never get a chance because ebay has a complete monopoly. This is espeically true with vintage computer hardware as most people don`t even bother doing a web search but just go straight to ebay.com and start their search there, thus not giving any other site a chance to compete.

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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to DIVARIN on Fri Apr 2 09:57:00 2021
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    DIVARIN wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

    I got banned from eBay, though tthey couldn't give me a reason why and wouldn't let me appeal it. ???

    I did as well. I had just listed a game that I made and had been
    trying to sell on my own web site (a C64 game named Trolley Follies)
    and they just perma-banned me.
    I was only able to talk to some oursourced customer support rep. I expected them to say I was doing piracy or something which I was ready
    to prove that I held the rights to the software. But he just said that they wouldn`t even tell me why I was banned.

    exactly what I got when I called... you'd think they'd at the very least
    tell you WHY - I seriously believe it's because I am pro-gun and they
    and PayPal are arm in arm and against them... but of course I have no
    proof





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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Divarin on Sat Apr 3 06:49:44 2021
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    Re: re: ebay
    By: Divarin to JIMMY ANDERSON on Fri Apr 02 2021 02:54 pm

    I got banned from eBay, though tthey couldn't give me a reason why and wouldn't let me appeal it. ???

    I did as well. I had just listed a game that I made and had been trying to sell on my own web site (a C64 game named Trolley Follies) and they just perma-banned me.
    I was only able to talk to some oursourced customer support rep. I expected

    ebay and paypal are quick to give out perm bans and there's no way to reverse it or even talk to a real rep who can help you.
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  • From Divarin@VERT/MUTINY to JIMMY ANDERSON on Sat Apr 3 09:10:50 2021
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    Re: Re: ebay
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to DIVARIN on Fri Apr 02 2021 09:57:00

    exactly what I got when I called... you'd think they'd at the very least tell you WHY - I seriously believe it's because I am pro-gun and they
    and PayPal are arm in arm and against them... but of course I have no
    proof

    I don't know about that I think ebay is just trying to weed out average joe sellers (which is the niche ebay was founded to fill) and are trying to become direct competators of amazon (where the majority of the products are sold by chinese manufacters or retailers that work directly with these manufacters)
    I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to position themselves so that amazon considers ebay to be sufficent competition that amazon tries to aquire them.

    Just my speculation of course, I have no proof, but seems like something short sighted executives would try to do, sink the company in such a way that they can get rich enough to not have to work again.

    Anyway more and more ebay is not filling the niche of letting average people just buy & sell stuff without devoting their whole life and career to that of selling (you know, selling on the side). For example, I collect vintage hand-held games such as led and vfd games. Often to get them at a decent price I need to pick up a bundle, I pick out the ones I want, and ones I don't want (such as LCD games, or ones I already have) would sell on ebay to recoup some of my money. Now I can't do that and I have a few duplicates sitting around that I don't want and don't really have a decent way to sell them. Oh sure I can put them on craigslist but I don't want people coming over to my house and I can put them on some other site like bonanza but we all know no one will
    ever see my stuff if it isn't on ebay because like I said people don't search the internet, they search ebay.

    There's a definate disconnect there but if ebay keeps up these shinanigans (sp?) buyers will catch on and start to broaded their searches to include other sites.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Divarin on Sat Apr 3 09:37:15 2021
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    Re: Re: ebay
    By: Divarin to JIMMY ANDERSON on Sat Apr 03 2021 09:10 am

    exactly what I got when I called... you'd think they'd at the very least tell you WHY - I seriously believe it's because I am pro-gun and they
    and PayPal are arm in arm and against them... but of course I have no proof

    I don't know about that I think ebay is just trying to weed out average joe sellers (which is the niche ebay was founded to fill) and are trying to beco direct competators of amazon (where the majority of the products are sold by chinese manufacters or retailers that work directly with these manufacters) I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to position themselves so that ama considers ebay to be sufficent competition that amazon tries to aquire them.


    I have heard similar theories before.

    I donĄ t think they are trying themselves to be purcahsed as much as they are trying to milk dedicated sellers for all what they are worth. If that means kicking small sellers out of the platform, I think they are fine with it.

    Amazon is becoming increasily aggresive in that regard, for that matter. It is very hard to be an Amazon seller unless you devote all your energies into selling your stuff through them, and adapt your catalogue to the sort of thing they want to offer. Their plans are clearly tailored to have you sell lots of cheap junk through them. In a couple of years it won't be feasible to sell through Amazon unless you are a manufacturer yourself.

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  • From Zouf@VERT/AMSTRAD to Divarin on Sat Apr 3 16:16:43 2021
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    Re: re: ebay
    By: Divarin to JIMMY ANDERSON on Fri Apr 02 2021 02:54 pm

    Re: Re: Facebook
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to ROALT on Sat Mar 27 2021 08:07:00

    I got banned from eBay, though tthey couldn't give me a reason why and wouldn't let me appeal it. ???

    I did as well. I had just listed a game that I made and had been trying to sell on my own web site (a C64 game named Trolley Follies) and they just perma-banned me.
    I was only able to talk to some oursourced customer support rep. I expected them to say I was doing piracy or something which I was ready to prove that held the rights to the software. But he just said that they wouldn`t even t me why I was banned.
    To add insult to injury they still stuck me with the listing fee even though they pulled my listing after it had been up only a couple of hours. I refuse to pay and it eventually went to collection. I`m still not paying it.

    In my opinion ebay needs to die. There are so many other worthwhile sites f buying and selling that never get a chance because ebay has a complete monopoly. This is espeically true with vintage computer hardware as most people don`t even bother doing a web search but just go straight to ebay.com and start their search there, thus not giving any other site a chance to compete.


    I would say that eBay are about as transparant as Facebook, YouTube and Twitter when it comes to laying down the ban-hammer on folk. These Silicon Valley can get away with what they're doing with impunity because they possess the market monopoly.

    Regarding vintage computers... I am part of the problem because I purchased the TRS-80 Model 102 I am typing on right now from eBay without checking any alternative market-place. I suppose it's human nature to gravitate towards the path of least resistance.

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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to DIVARIN on Sat Apr 3 06:14:00 2021
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    DIVARIN wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

    I don't know about that I think ebay is just trying to weed out average joe sellers (which is the niche ebay was founded to fill) and are
    trying to become direct competators of amazon (where the majority of
    the products are sold by chinese manufacters or retailers that work directly with these manufacters) I wouldn't be surprised if they're
    trying to position themselves so that amazon considers ebay to be sufficent competition that amazon tries to aquire them.

    Just my speculation of course, I have no proof, but seems like
    something short sighted executives would try to do, sink the company in such a way that they can get rich enough to not have to work again.

    Could be - not a bad theory at all... Thing is, with me banned, I can't
    even PURCHASE anything there.

    want and don't really have a decent way to sell them. Oh sure I can
    put them on craigslist but I don't want people coming over to my house

    Same here...

    people don't search the internet, they search ebay.

    Kinda like people don't search the web, they search Google (or google it - verb).

    There's a definate disconnect there but if ebay keeps up these
    shinanigans (sp?) buyers will catch on and start to broaded their
    searches to include other sites.

    I need to start looking... Last thing I bought on eBay was during that 'banning' when I bought a comic book I missed at Wal-Mart and my
    normal store in Texas wasn't guaranteed to get it...

    I used to buy monthy from mycomicshop.com - but got to be too much
    money a month!



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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to ARELOR on Sat Apr 3 06:15:00 2021
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    ARELOR wrote to DIVARIN <=-

    I have heard similar theories before.

    I donĄ t think they are trying themselves to be purcahsed as much as
    they are trying to milk dedicated sellers for all what they are worth.
    If that means kicking small sellers out of the platform, I think they
    are fine with it.

    That makes sense too!

    Amazon is becoming increasily aggresive in that regard, for that
    matter. It is very hard to be an Amazon seller unless you devote all
    your energies into selling your stuff through them, and adapt your catalogue to the sort of thing they want to offer. Their plans are
    clearly tailored to have you sell lots of cheap junk through them. In a couple of years it won't be feasible to sell through Amazon unless you
    are a manufacturer yourself.

    Ouch - yep, I can see that, and explains why some retail sites and/or manufacturers will send you to 'their Amazon store.'




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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to ZOUF on Sat Apr 3 06:16:00 2021
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    ZOUF wrote to DIVARIN <=-

    I would say that eBay are about as transparant as Facebook, YouTube and Twitter when it comes to laying down the ban-hammer on folk. These
    Silicon Valley can get away with what they're doing with impunity
    because they possess the market monopoly.

    Which is why I made the "I'm pro-gun and they aren't" comment. :-)

    Regarding vintage computers... I am part of the problem because I purchased the TRS-80 Model 102 I am typing on right now from eBay
    without checking any alternative market-place. I suppose it's human
    nature to gravitate towards the path of least resistance.

    Nothing to feel guilty about! I did the same thing, til they booted me.
    :-) I'll still check there for the occasional price. :-)



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  • From Zouf@VERT/AMSTRAD to JIMMY ANDERSON on Sun Apr 4 14:59:33 2021
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    Re: Re: eBay
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to ZOUF on Sat Apr 03 2021 06:16 am

    Nothing to feel guilty about! I did the same thing, til they booted me.
    :-) I'll still check there for the occasional price. :-)


    Also eBay, in conjunction with PayPal, make for a very safe trading enviroment. It is very difficult to get scammed if you follow the portocols correctly and as far as I know, disputes get resolved in a fair and transparent manner. Mostly.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Zouf on Sun Apr 4 13:48:14 2021
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    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Zouf to JIMMY ANDERSON on Sun Apr 04 2021 02:59 pm

    Also eBay, in conjunction with PayPal, make for a very safe trading envirome It is very difficult to get scammed if you follow the portocols correctly an as far as I know, disputes get resolved in a fair and transparent manner. Mostly.

    Disputes get resolved by assuming the vendor is at fault in the first place, then the vendor has to prove himself innocent.

    These platforms have managed to achieve a monopoly in their field by convincing the purchasers that they have the best conditions. Once purchasers want to use these platforms only, these platforms can afford to screw sellers no end.

    Which is why I recommend vendors to charge extra fees when taking purchases over PayPal. I am fine if customers want to pay over PayPal, but then they are going to cover for the extra risk they are introducing in the equation.

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  • From Zouf@VERT/AMSTRAD to Arelor on Mon Apr 5 00:03:29 2021
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    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Arelor to Zouf on Sun Apr 04 2021 01:48 pm

    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Zouf to JIMMY ANDERSON on Sun Apr 04 2021 02:59 pm

    Also eBay, in conjunction with PayPal, make for a very safe trading envir It is very difficult to get scammed if you follow the portocols correctly as far as I know, disputes get resolved in a fair and transparent manner. Mostly.

    Disputes get resolved by assuming the vendor is at fault in the first place, then the vendor has to prove himself innocent.

    These platforms have managed to achieve a monopoly in their field by convinc the purchasers that they have the best conditions. Once purchasers want to u these platforms only, these platforms can afford to screw sellers no end.

    Which is why I recommend vendors to charge extra fees when taking purchases over PayPal. I am fine if customers want to pay over PayPal, but then they a going to cover for the extra risk they are introducing in the equation.

    --
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    You make a very good point. I have only ever been a customer on eBay having only solid minor trinkets every now and then and my personal experience is that the buyer is always right. This has, of course, cultivated an air of confidence in eBay resulting in its popularity with the masses causing other auction sites and digital market places to die slow deaths.

    Screwing over vendors has turned out to be a bit of a genius ploy by the eBay execs.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Sun Apr 4 23:36:27 2021
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    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Arelor to Zouf on Sun Apr 04 2021 01:48 pm


    Which is why I recommend vendors to charge extra fees when taking purchases over PayPal. I am fine if customers want to pay over PayPal, but then they are going to cover for the extra risk they are introducing in the equation.


    i dont think paypal allows you to do that, unless they changed it.
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Mon Apr 5 03:34:24 2021
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    Re: Re: eBay
    By: MRO to Arelor on Sun Apr 04 2021 11:36 pm

    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Arelor to Zouf on Sun Apr 04 2021 01:48 pm


    Which is why I recommend vendors to charge extra fees when taking purchas over PayPal. I am fine if customers want to pay over PayPal, but then the are going to cover for the extra risk they are introducing in the equatio


    i dont think paypal allows you to do that, unless they changed it.

    They don't allow that, but as far as I am concerned they can shove a spiked ball up their ###.

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  • From Rampage@VERT/SESTAR to MRO on Mon Apr 5 05:10:46 2021
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    Re: Re: eBay
    By: MRO to Arelor on Sun Apr 04 2021 23:36:27


    Which is why I recommend vendors to charge extra fees when taking
    purchases over PayPal. I am fine if customers want to pay over
    PayPal, but then they are going to cover for the extra risk they
    are introducing in the equation.

    i dont think paypal allows you to do that, unless they changed it.

    you do it the other way around... you charge everyone inflated prices but give discounts to those that do not use payment services...

    increase your prices across the board by (eg) 3% and give a (eg) 3% discount to (eg) cash... the payment processing companies cannot tell you, the seller, how to give discounts but they can tell you you cannot pass on their
    fees to your customers... so you just flip the tables like this and there ya go...


    FWIW: this is not all directed at you, MRO... it is also for others reading along :)



    yes, i know that a 3% increase is not the same as a 3% decrease... i just used easy to understand numbers for the examples... for those that really care, a 3% increase is like a 2.9125% discount...

    1000 + 3% = 1030.00

    1030 - 2.9125% = 1000.00125

    so just make it easy... go up (eg) 3.5% and give (eg) 3% discount... you'll make a little more on everyone and cover the CC fees without loss of your normal profit...

    if you learned, like i did, to set your prices at +30 points (basically +42%), then we would now set them as +45.5% to cover all our bases...


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Mon Apr 5 06:33:50 2021
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    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Rampage to MRO on Mon Apr 05 2021 05:10 am

    you do it the other way around... you charge everyone inflated prices but give discounts to those that do not use payment services...

    increase your prices across the board by (eg) 3% and give a (eg) 3% discount to (eg) cash... the payment processing companies cannot tell you, the seller, how to give discounts but they can tell you you cannot pass on their fees to your customers... so you just flip the tables like this and there ya go...


    i've never see someone do that and they are clicking a button... so if you click one button and it's more if you use paypal, that will get get you kicked off if someone complains.

    i encourage everyone to look into how paypal operates. it will freeze people's accounts for no reason and then lift it after a few days. i think this generates interest in their banks and makes them a lot of money.

    i used paypal for many years to pay my bills and a few people would donate to me for my bbs sites and i had others pay me for services through it. i always encountered weird freezes a few times a year from them.
    maybe because people sent me money or i was paying for servers to assist bbstorrents, i'm not sure.
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  • From Divarin@VERT/MUTINY to Arelor on Mon Apr 5 09:44:33 2021
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    Re: Re: ebay
    By: Arelor to Divarin on Sat Apr 03 2021 09:37:15

    Amazon is becoming increasily aggresive in that regard, for that matter. It very hard to be an Amazon seller unless you devote all your energies into selling your stuff through them, and adapt your catalogue to the sort of thi they want to offer. Their plans are clearly tailored to have you sell lots o cheap junk through them. In a couple of years it won't be feasible to sell through Amazon unless you are a manufacturer yourself.

    I think that's exactly what ebay is doing as well, leaving the niche for "on-the-side" sellers open. Well there's plenty of other sites that are already set up for this such as Bonanza but both buyers and sellers have to start being more open to other sites besides ebay and amazon. I guess it's a sort of inertia.

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  • From Divarin@VERT/MUTINY to Zouf on Mon Apr 5 09:46:57 2021
    @VIA: MUTINY
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    @REPLY: <606886DB.25507.dove-general@amstrad.simulant.uk>
    @TZ: c12c
    Re: re: eBay
    By: Zouf to Divarin on Sat Apr 03 2021 16:16:43

    Regarding vintage computers... I am part of the problem because I purchased TRS-80 Model 102 I am typing on right now from eBay without checking any alternative market-place. I suppose it's human nature to gravitate towards t path of least resistance.

    I'm guilty of that as well. But if ebay keeps up these kinds of practices they're not going to be the path of least resistence for long.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MutinyBBS.com port 2332
  • From Divarin@VERT/MUTINY to Zouf on Mon Apr 5 10:02:42 2021
    @VIA: MUTINY
    @MSGID: <606B1882.14026.dove-general@mutinybbs.com>
    @REPLY: <606A45C1.25541.dove-general@amstrad.simulant.uk>
    @TZ: c12c
    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Zouf to Arelor on Mon Apr 05 2021 00:03:29

    You make a very good point. I have only ever been a customer on eBay having only solid minor trinkets every now and then and my personal experience is t the buyer is always right. This has, of course, cultivated an air of confide in eBay resulting in its popularity with the masses causing other auction si and digital market places to die slow deaths.

    Screwing over vendors has turned out to be a bit of a genius ploy by the eBa execs.

    You're right ebay is very buyer friendly but no marketplace can work unless there are both buyers and sellers. Big sellers (people who sell on ebay as a job) will probably stick with it even if ebay occasionally screws them over.

    For vintage electronics and software that's not the case, these sellers aren't getting shipment from chinese manufacterers and selling them off they're selling things they own to get money to buy things they want but don't own. I've kept an eye on amibay and other forums that have a buy/sell/trade section but trading through forums is a lot less convienent than an actual marketplace with postings you can browse and search through.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ MutinyBBS.com port 2332
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Divarin on Mon Apr 5 17:38:46 2021
    @VIA: PALANT
    @MSGID: <606B9176.22295.dove-general@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <606B1882.14026.dove-general@mutinybbs.com>
    @TZ: c168
    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Divarin to Zouf on Mon Apr 05 2021 10:02 am

    For vintage electronics and software that's not the case, these sellers aren getting shipment from chinese manufacterers and selling them off they're selling things they own to get money to buy things they want but don't own. I've kept an eye on amibay and other forums that have a buy/sell/trade secti but trading through forums is a lot less convienent than an actual marketpla with postings you can browse and search through.


    I have found forum and classified-ads based trading to be a nightmare, mostly because people suck.

    Example ad: "I have this ball, it weights 500 grams, it is red, it is 1 dollar non negotiable."

    Customer 1: "How much does the ball cost?"

    Customer 2: "What color is the ball?"

    Customer 3: "I will have it for 0,15 dollar."

    I think about 75% of customers are there to waste your time. Bonus points if they send you the same question regarding the same product every month.

    Really niche forums are different in that regard, probably because it is guaranteed that anybody in that forum at least knows the field.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Mon Apr 5 17:49:40 2021
    @VIA: PALANT
    @MSGID: <606B9404.22296.dove-general@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @REPLY: <606AF59E.4150.dove-gen@bbses.info>
    @TZ: c168
    Re: Re: eBay
    By: MRO to Arelor on Mon Apr 05 2021 06:33 am

    i've never see someone do that and they are clicking a button... so if you click one button and it's more if you use paypal, that will get get you kick off if someone complains.


    I am aware. The risk is taken.

    The fact you charge 10 cents extra as a Paypal fee in a purchase worth 50 bucks seems enough to push people away from PayPal and into credit card, so in the end of the day I don't have much money in the PayPal wallet anyway. As soon as there is a meaningful ammount I make it disappear.

    I think I have already mentioned, but Linux News Media stopped using PayPal for dealing with providers precisely because of the ammount of issues it caused. Worst yet, when they screw you the ToS forbids you from trashtalking them as they deserve.

    For all the rubbish we have poured over Amazon and eBay so far in this network, PayPal must be the worst of them all. I really encourage people not to be dependant on them. Jerks like these only get power over you if you let them.

    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Mon Apr 5 08:44:00 2021
    @VIA: CAPCITY2
    @MSGID: <606B097B.53825.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <606A93CB.4144.dove-gen@bbses.info>
    @TZ: ff10
    Hello MRO!

    ** On Sunday 04.04.21 - 23:36, MRO wrote to Arelor:

    Which is why I recommend vendors to charge extra fees when
    taking purchases over PayPal. I am fine if customers want to
    pay over PayPal, but then they are going to cover for the
    extra risk they are introducing in the equation.


    i dont think paypal allows you to do that, unless they
    changed it.

    Perhaps it can be embedded into the "shipping" charges or into
    the selling price of the item itself?

    eBay has several ways to list. Fixed price could work.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to JIMMY ANDERSON on Mon Apr 5 15:50:00 2021
    @VIA: CAPCITY2
    @MSGID: <606B69F8.53827.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <606912DE.118341.dove-gen@vert.synchro.net>
    @TZ: ff10
    Hello JIMMY ANDERSON!

    ** On Saturday 03.04.21 - 06:14, you wrote to DIVARIN:

    Just my speculation of course, I have no proof, but seems
    like something short sighted executives would try to do,
    sink the company in such a way that they can get rich
    enough to not have to work again.

    Could be - not a bad theory at all... Thing is, with me
    banned, I can't even PURCHASE anything there.

    [1]
    Can't you assume a new login name and a new email address?

    Google allows you to use yourname+SOMETHINGHERE@gmail.com ..and
    it ignores the +SOMETHINGHERE.

    In otherwords, you could use it like:

    yourname+ebaystuff@gmail.com
    yourname+amazonstuff@gmail.com

    Then create a filter on gmail to put the ebaystuff and the
    amazonstuff in their own respective folders.

    OR.. just create a new email address with your ISP account. Most
    offer unlimited email accounts.

    OR.. create a new one and forward it to your old address.

    [2]
    Use a different credit card or paypal name. Paypal allows you
    to add additional email addresses, and you can pick any one of
    them interchangeably.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Zouf@VERT/AMSTRAD to Divarin on Tue Apr 6 03:50:09 2021
    @VIA: AMSTRAD
    @MSGID: <606BCC61.25568.dove-general@amstrad.simulant.uk>
    @REPLY: <606B1882.14026.dove-general@mutinybbs.com>
    @TZ: 9000
    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Divarin to Zouf on Mon Apr 05 2021 10:02 am

    For vintage electronics and software that's not the case, these sellers aren getting shipment from chinese manufacterers and selling them off they're selling things they own to get money to buy things they want but don't own. I've kept an eye on amibay and other forums that have a buy/sell/trade secti but trading through forums is a lot less convienent than an actual marketpla with postings you can browse and search through.

    I think sellers of vintage hardware are willing to ply their trade on eBay because the very high number of views and attention they'll get along with prospective buyers outweighs the lack of fees and one-sided unfair rules on other trading sites. Computers are heavily inflated on eBay because sellers know they can get away with it.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From HusTler@VERT/PHARCYDE to Arelor on Tue Apr 6 06:38:33 2021
    @VIA: PHARCYDE
    @MSGID: <606C4839.26737.dove-gen@pharcyde.org>
    @REPLY: <606B9404.22296.dove-general@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @TZ: c168
    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Arelor to MRO on Mon Apr 05 2021 05:49 pm

    PayPal must be the worst of them all. I really encourage people not to be dependant on them. Jerks like these only get power over you if you let them.

    I can't stand paypal!

    ... Money isn't everything, usually it isn't even enough.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to HusTler on Tue Apr 6 09:24:00 2021
    @VIA: CAPCITY2
    @MSGID: <606C6117.53866.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <606C4839.26737.dove-gen@pharcyde.org>
    @TZ: ff10
    Hello HusTler!

    ** On Tuesday 06.04.21 - 06:38, HusTler wrote to Arelor:

    PayPal must be the worst of them all. I really encourage
    people not to be dependant on them. Jerks like these only
    get power over you if you let them.

    I can't stand paypal!

    What did they do to you?


    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Divarin@VERT/MUTINY to Zouf on Tue Apr 6 14:22:41 2021
    @VIA: MUTINY
    @MSGID: <606CA6F1.14064.dove-general@mutinybbs.com>
    @REPLY: <606BCC61.25568.dove-general@amstrad.simulant.uk>
    @TZ: c12c
    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Zouf to Divarin on Tue Apr 06 2021 03:50:09

    I think sellers of vintage hardware are willing to ply their trade on eBay because the very high number of views and attention they'll get along with prospective buyers outweighs the lack of fees and one-sided unfair rules on other trading sites. Computers are heavily inflated on eBay because sellers know they can get away with it.

    That is the current state of things yes but going back to what I mentioned earlier ebay is making it a more common practice to weed out people who aren't full-time sellers, even if they have zero complaints and 100% positive feedback. So if you are someone who occasionally sells vintage hardware on ebay then you get banned ... well you're selling days are done as you're essentially invisible on other sites.

    Ebay simply wants full-time sellers only and people who sell stuff "on-the-side" they're weeding out so eventually sellers of vintage hardware won't be doing it on ebay.

    It wouldn't be so bad if buyers of vintage hardware would make an effort to expand their search instead of straight-up starting at ebay.com. Even if 90% of the time the peice you want at the price you want happens to be on ebay, just search outside ebay anyway.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ Mutiny BBS - mutinybbs.com - telnet:2332 - ssh:2232
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Tue Apr 6 16:43:23 2021
    @VIA: BBSESINF
    @MSGID: <606CD5FB.4189.dove-gen@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <606B9404.22296.dove-general@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @TZ: c168
    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Arelor to MRO on Mon Apr 05 2021 05:49 pm

    Re: Re: eBay
    By: MRO to Arelor on Mon Apr 05 2021 06:33 am

    i've never see someone do that and they are clicking a button... so if you click one button and it's more if you use paypal, that will get get you kick off if someone complains.


    I am aware. The risk is taken.

    The fact you charge 10 cents extra as a Paypal fee in a purchase worth 50 bucks seems enough to push people away from PayPal and into credit card, so in the end of the day I don't have much money in the PayPal wallet anyway. As soon as there is a meaningful ammount I make it disappear.

    I think I have already mentioned, but Linux News Media stopped using PayPal for dealing with providers precisely because of the ammount of issues it caused. Worst yet, when they screw you the ToS forbids you from trashtalking them as they deserve.

    google pay is decent even though they changed a few things.
    i used to get my payments almost immediately but takes a while now.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Tue Apr 6 16:47:15 2021
    @VIA: BBSESINF
    @MSGID: <606CD6E3.4191.dove-gen@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <606B69F8.53827.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @TZ: c168
    Re: ebay
    By: Ogg to JIMMY ANDERSON on Mon Apr 05 2021 03:50 pm

    offer unlimited email accounts.

    OR.. create a new one and forward it to your old address.

    [2]
    Use a different credit card or paypal name. Paypal allows you
    to add additional email addresses, and you can pick any one of
    them interchangeably.

    eventually they freeze you and want your identification. that's how they ensure a ban stays a ban.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From poindexter FORTRAN@VERT/REALITY to Arelor on Tue Apr 6 06:47:00 2021
    @VIA: REALITY
    @MSGID: <606DAD52.47174.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
    @REPLY: <606B9176.22295.dove-general@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
    @TZ: c1e0
    Arelor wrote to Divarin <=-

    I have found forum and classified-ads based trading to be a nightmare, mostly because people suck.

    eBay is annoying, inevitably I'll get the emails from people wanting me to sell an item for over the asking price if I take the transaction off of eBay and close the auction.

    There's always an emotionally-gripping story, like wanting a camera to take
    a picture of their mother in ill health.

    Craigslist is as much fun, I've sold 3 cars there recently.

    I'd get someone interested in selling my "item", minutes after posting it. Another would ask what color the car was. (pictures included in the
    auction). Another would offer CA$H 60% of the asking price.

    Most of the responses would ask me to text them, even though I'd included my email address. I wonder if they're harvesting cell phone numbers.

    I ended up finding wonderful buyers each time, however.


    ... A closed system lacks the ability to renew itself.
    --- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org
  • From HusTler@VERT/PHARCYDE to Ogg on Wed Apr 7 12:11:08 2021
    @VIA: PHARCYDE
    @MSGID: <606DE7AC.26770.dove-gen@pharcyde.org>
    @REPLY: <606C6117.53866.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @TZ: c168
    Re: eBay
    By: Ogg to HusTler on Tue Apr 06 2021 09:24 am

    PayPal must be the worst of them all. I really encourage
    people not to be dependant on them. Jerks like these only
    get power over you if you let them.

    I can't stand paypal!

    What did they do to you?

    Stole from me.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)
  • From Zouf@VERT/AMSTRAD to Divarin on Thu Apr 8 01:21:23 2021
    @VIA: AMSTRAD
    @MSGID: <606E4C83.25626.dove-general@amstrad.simulant.uk>
    @REPLY: <606CA6F1.14064.dove-general@mutinybbs.com>
    @TZ: 9000
    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Divarin to Zouf on Tue Apr 06 2021 02:22 pm

    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Zouf to Divarin on Tue Apr 06 2021 03:50:09

    I think sellers of vintage hardware are willing to ply their trade on eBa because the very high number of views and attention they'll get along wit prospective buyers outweighs the lack of fees and one-sided unfair rules other trading sites. Computers are heavily inflated on eBay because selle know they can get away with it.

    That is the current state of things yes but going back to what I mentioned earlier ebay is making it a more common practice to weed out people who aren full-time sellers, even if they have zero complaints and 100% positive feedback. So if you are someone who occasionally sells vintage hardware on ebay then you get banned ... well you're selling days are done as you're essentially invisible on other sites.

    Ebay simply wants full-time sellers only and people who sell stuff "on-the-side" they're weeding out so eventually sellers of vintage hardware won't be doing it on ebay.

    It wouldn't be so bad if buyers of vintage hardware would make an effort to expand their search instead of straight-up starting at ebay.com. Even if 90 of the time the peice you want at the price you want happens to be on ebay, just search outside ebay anyway.


    I agree strongly with everything you've said. That's the problem with monopolies. They appear consumer friendly and amenable to partners to begin with, but then they caputure the bulk of the market share they throw their weight around and change their behaviour in an attempt to squeeze more of ever diminishing returns. We all have to do our best to support other platforms because it's we 'the little people' who get screwed in any market which is devoid of competition.

    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!
  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to OGG on Wed Apr 7 10:40:00 2021
    @VIA: OTHETA
    @MSGID: <606E8351.118452.dove-gen@vert.synchro.net>
    OGG wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

    Can't you assume a new login name and a new email address?

    Possibly, but I'd just as soon NOT give them any more of my
    business. :-)

    I've been buying from reputable vendors by going to their own
    websites. I might have to pay shipping, where eBay might be
    "free shipping" in the listing, but I know who I'm dealing with
    and, if I want, can actually CONTACT someone. :-)





    ... Hey, what's that beeping noise? Where's that smoke coming from?
    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
    ■ wcQWK 8.0 ¸ Omicron Theta * Memphis, TN * winserver.org
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to JIMMY ANDERSON on Thu Apr 8 08:22:00 2021
    @VIA: CAPCITY2
    @MSGID: <606EF598.53913.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <606E8351.118452.dove-gen@vert.synchro.net>
    @TZ: ff10
    Hello JIMMY!

    ** On Wednesday 07.04.21 - 10:40, you wrote to me:

    I've been buying from reputable vendors by going to their
    own websites. I might have to pay shipping, where eBay
    might be "free shipping" in the listing, but I know who I'm
    dealing with and, if I want, can actually CONTACT someone.
    :-)

    I ordered some boots from a discount warehouse that featured a
    certain brand. My credit card was charged, I didn't get the
    boots. A few days after placing the order, the website was
    unreachable. No phone contact. Email went unanswered.

    I had taken screen shots of the product and kept their email
    "confirmation". I eventually filed a claim with the credit
    card, but it took piles of paperwork (the evidence), and "the
    full story" via mail.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Thu Apr 8 11:34:49 2021
    @VIA: BBSESINF
    @MSGID: <606F30A9.4240.dove-gen@bbses.info>
    @REPLY: <606EF598.53913.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @TZ: c168
    Re: ebay
    By: Ogg to JIMMY ANDERSON on Thu Apr 08 2021 08:22 am


    I ordered some boots from a discount warehouse that featured a
    certain brand. My credit card was charged, I didn't get the
    boots. A few days after placing the order, the website was
    unreachable. No phone contact. Email went unanswered.

    time to use amazon, dude.
    ---
    ■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to OGG on Thu Apr 8 06:51:00 2021
    @VIA: OTHETA
    @MSGID: <606FA02E.118477.dove-gen@vert.synchro.net>
    OGG wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

    I ordered some boots from a discount warehouse that featured a
    certain brand. My credit card was charged, I didn't get the
    boots. A few days after placing the order, the website was
    unreachable. No phone contact. Email went unanswered.

    I had taken screen shots of the product and kept their email "confirmation". I eventually filed a claim with the credit
    card, but it took piles of paperwork (the evidence), and "the
    full story" via mail.

    Ouch... Yeah, that's bad...




    ... I found a piano stool. I thought they were housebroken.
    --- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
    ■ wcQWK 8.0 ¸ Omicron Theta * Memphis, TN * winserver.org
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Thu Apr 8 16:47:00 2021
    @VIA: CAPCITY2
    @MSGID: <606F6C00.53927.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <606F30A9.4240.dove-gen@bbses.info>
    @TZ: ff10
    Hello MRO!

    ** On Thursday 08.04.21 - 11:34, MRO wrote to Ogg:

    I ordered some boots from a discount warehouse that featured a
    certain brand. My credit card was charged, I didn't get the
    boots. A few days after placing the order, the website was
    unreachable. No phone contact. Email went unanswered.

    time to use amazon, dude.

    True enough. To make it a double-blow, I was ordering on behalf
    of a friend. The same boots were almost double price when listed
    on amazon (after import fees, and shipping fees, and exchange)

    I was just too trusting and gullible for the "independant"
    warehouse.

    I ended up getting the boots via amazon. I absorbed the
    difference in price since it was for a friend afterall.


    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Divarin on Thu Apr 8 20:30:00 2021
    @VIA: CAPCITY2
    @MSGID: <606FA03E.53930.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @REPLY: <6067684B.13973.dove-general@mutinybbs.com>
    @TZ: ff10
    Hello Divarin!

    ** On Friday 02.04.21 - 14:54, Divarin wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON:

    I did as well. I had just listed a game that I made and had
    been trying to sell on my own web site (a C64 game named
    Trolley Follies) and they just perma-banned me.

    Maybe there is a special policy for non-commercial software
    products? Maybe they are just protecting the public from an
    unvetted software product. Who is to say that your C64 code
    isn't a trojan?

    ...But he just said that they
    wouldn`t even tell me why I was banned.

    I think you should have been given a reason. Not to offer one is
    bad PR.

    To add insult to injury they still stuck me with the listing
    fee even though they pulled my listing after it had been up
    only a couple of hours. I refused to pay and it eventually
    went to collection. I`m still not paying it.

    The fees are pretty tiny at under $1 for most listings, right?
    It is not likely to go into litigation, that's for sure.


    In my opinion ebay needs to die. There are so many other
    worthwhile sites for buying and selling that never get a
    chance because ebay has a complete monopoly. This is
    espeically true with vintage computer hardware as most
    people don`t even bother doing a web search but just go
    straight to ebay.com and start their search there, thus not
    giving any other site a chance to compete.

    The problem is that alternative places to buy are not obvious or
    easy to trust as much as the long-running eBay.

    I like discogs for vinyl record collections. I should work on
    posting my own 400+ 45 rpm and 1100+ LP collection there.

    But any online sale can be met with fraud on the buyer's end:
    claiming to never receive item, or wrong item, or damaged item,
    etc..

    --- OpenXP 5.0.49
    * Origin: Ogg's Dovenet Point (723:320/1.9)
    ■ Synchronet ■ CAPCITY2 * capcity2.synchro.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/Rlogin/HTTP
  • From Dr. What@VERT/DMINE to Ogg on Fri Apr 9 08:34:00 2021
    @VIA: DMINE
    @MSGID: <607053A7.51872.dove-general@dmine.net>
    @REPLY: <606EF598.53913.dove-gen@capitolcityonline.net>
    @TZ: c12c
    Ogg wrote to JIMMY ANDERSON <=-

    I ordered some boots from a discount warehouse that featured a
    certain brand. My credit card was charged, I didn't get the
    boots. A few days after placing the order, the website was
    unreachable. No phone contact. Email went unanswered.

    I got duped like that from a Facebook ad. In my case, the product arrived.
    But instead of the "deluxe version" that I paid for, I got the basic
    version. Of course, by the time it arrived, the web site was gone.

    They did answer their email though and kept insisting that they had sent
    the "correct" product and offered me a token refund of a small part of
    the price difference between the deluxe and regular version. Then
    they stopped responding.

    I took revenge by marking all the ads as "scam". I haven't seen that
    product for sale anywhere now, so it looks like they were all scams.

    The good news is that I have a better feel for when a web site is a
    scam. Helpful hint: If the web site is something "funny" like "hasgoodstuff.com" or "purpledaisy.com", then it's probably a scam.


    ... War never decides who is right, only who is left.
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    ■ Synchronet ■ Diamond Mine Online BBS - bbs.dmine.net:24 - Fredericksburg, VA USA
  • From Divarin@VERT/MUTINY to Zouf on Thu Apr 15 14:01:33 2021
    @VIA: MUTINY
    @MSGID: <60787F7D.14277.dove-general@mutinybbs.com>
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    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Zouf to Divarin on Thu Apr 08 2021 01:21:23

    I agree strongly with everything you've said. That's the problem with monopolies. They appear consumer friendly and amenable to partners to begin with, but then they caputure the bulk of the market share they throw their weight around and change their behaviour in an attempt to squeeze more of ev diminishing returns. We all have to do our best to support other platforms because it's we 'the little people' who get screwed in any market which is devoid of competition.

    I agree. Yesterday I had an opportunity to do that. About a year ago I had purchased some new tires on ebay for a good deal (and they were good tires). Well yesterday I had to do the same for my wife's jeep so I went to ebay to find the seller I had bought from before but then tracked down that seller's official site (not easy since ebay doesn't allow sellers to put links to other sites in their description but based on their name and logo it was easy to find, "Priority Tire" btw if anyone is interested). Anyway I was able to buy the tires I wanted without giving any of my money (or the seller's) to ebay. Gave me a good feeling.

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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to DIVARIN on Fri Apr 16 10:28:00 2021
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    DIVARIN wrote to ZOUF <=-

    I agree. Yesterday I had an opportunity to do that. About a year ago I had purchased some new tires on ebay for a good deal (and they were
    good tires). Well yesterday I had to do the same for my wife's jeep so
    I went to ebay to find the seller I had bought from before but then tracked down that seller's official site (not easy since ebay doesn't allow sellers to put links to other sites in their description but
    based on their name and logo it was easy to find, "Priority Tire" btw
    if anyone is interested). Anyway I was able to buy the tires I wanted without giving any of my money (or the seller's) to ebay. Gave me a
    good feeling.

    Well done!!!




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  • From Zouf@VERT/AMSTRAD to Divarin on Fri Apr 16 14:10:23 2021
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    Re: Re: eBay
    By: Divarin to Zouf on Thu Apr 15 2021 02:01 pm

    I agree. Yesterday I had an opportunity to do that. About a year ago I had purchased some new tires on ebay for a good deal (and they were good tires). Well yesterday I had to do the same for my wife's jeep so I went to ebay to find the seller I had bought from before but then tracked down that seller's official site (not easy since ebay doesn't allow sellers to put links to oth sites in their description but based on their name and logo it was easy to find, "Priority Tire" btw if anyone is interested). Anyway I was able to bu the tires I wanted without giving any of my money (or the seller's) to ebay. Gave me a good feeling.

    Pleased to hear you managed to circumvent eBay on this occasion :-). I will try to do the same whenever dealing with an established business.

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